BREXIT – Here’s the thoughts of an an expert – Vernon Bogdanor

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/03/second-brexit-referendum-case-getting-stronger-political-deadlock-life-raft

The Guardian has the story on its web site – see link above

If anyone understands the muddle (that’s putting it politely) that the UK is in following the EU Referendum then Vernon Bogdanor does.

Yes I know we are not supposed to take any notice of experts these days as we make up things to match our prejudices as we go along, but just for a minute please let’s consider that we are in a very deep hole and that the further digging of it by May and Corbyn just might not be in our interests.

Seriously, this article, which is a cut down version of Vernon Bogdanor’s major speech on this issue, is well worth reading if we really do care about what is happening to us.

Vernon Bogdanor is professor of government at King’s College London. The Guardian article is based on his Gresham lecture delivered in June.

My thanks to Bob for the lead to this posting

Tory supporters seriously dislike the Lib Dems and Labour supporters expect Corbyn to help deliver Brexit – Two accecdotes from the campaign trail

Two encounters with opposition voters this weekend and both were illuminating!

Firstly, a lady was disappointed that I was not delivering a Tory leaflet and was even more disappointed when she realised I was delivering a Lib Dem one. The conversation which followed was cordial, even pleasant, but what came out was that she was not really bothered about Labour as she could not work out whether they were for or against Brexit (she was obviously for). She dislikes the Lib Dems because she knows exactly where we stand. A good encounter then as our message is clearly getting through whereas Labour’s is not – but then again Labour Party members keep telling the me the same thing.

Secondly, a Labour supporter told me he had voted in the Mersey Mayor election last week and he expected Labour to help deliver Brexit. And thereby hangs Labour’s dilemma, their supporters (or at least a significant number of them) back Brexit and expect Labour to help Teresa May to deliver it. This chap knew Labour had voted for Brexit in Parliament and that they were now saying almost the opposite on the campaign trail. He was clearly concerned that Labour may U-turn but he thought they would sober up and keep with Brexit.

Gone are the days when folk say they don’t know what the Lib Dems stand for.

Brexit – MP’s seem to be starting to sober up

Whether you voted in or out in the EU Referendum surely you want to know what the outcome and consequences are when the UK has gone through it’s leaving negotiations.

After all we were only asked whether we wanted to leave or not; the consequences of leaving were speculated on during the referendum campaign and have been talked about since but we don’t actually know what they will be with any clarity.

On that basis I have always felt that we need to look at the deal that comes out of the negotiation process to decided whether it is acceptable or not. And talking to some Leavers they seem to think that too.

Yes of course there are leavers who still would want to leave the EU no matter what the consequences are but I don’t think there are many folks with such an extreme view.

So it’s nice to see that MP’s in the Westminister hothouse that is so cut off from the realities of real life have started to say hang on a minute we need to know what the deal looks like before we go any further.

Now that’s what I call common sense. Otherwise it’s like being asked do you want to go on holiday, to which you reply yes. But then you are told that the holiday will be to Siberia in the dead of winter. Well I would guess that the majority would have second thoughts about that holiday as it’s not the warm Mediterranean one we had in our mind.

Yes I want a say in where we are going to not just a say in where we are leaving from.

Brexit – the trouble is it means many differing things to the Brexiters

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37872899

The BBC has the story of the latest Tory MP to resign over Brexit – see link above.

The trouble is the Brexiters did not and still do not have anything like a common platform via which they can pursue their many, varied and indeed conflicting objectives.

Of course our Prime Minister has told us that ‘Brexit means Brexit’, which is about all she has had to say on the matter in public. She does that because she understands that it means massively differing things but wants to keep all Brexiters on board. However, that’s like trying to keep the supporters of 100 different football teams supporting football generally when the majority of them are actually going to see their beloved team relegated whether it plays well or not.

And what of Her Majesty’s Official Opposition, well they half heartedly supported staying in the EU and now seem to half heartedly support leaving it! Personally I think Corbyn has had a bad press but the poor fellow does not seem to have any idea which way he wants Labour to go with the EU.

So what does Brexit mean? Well that’s like trying to define infinity!