Brexit – What do Brexiteers really want? They really want different things

Yes, I know that they all want to leave the EU but frankly, that raises more questions than it answers. Look at this way:-

* Do they want to leave under any circumstances no matter what the consequences to the UK economy, their personal finances and even their own jobs? Well yes, some do and are well prepared for it to cost them money and even the jobs of themselves and their close family; it means that much to them. But how many who voted for Brexit support this ultra position?

* Or do they want Brexit and are prepared to take a bit of a hit to the UK economy and indeed their own circumstances (financial and job wise) to get it? Seems we are well past the stage where the damage to us all was just ‘a bit of a hit’ with the government putting Billions of Pounds into all kinds of Brexit issues that would otherwise be building hospitals etc. Has this group changed their minds now?

* Or do they want Brexit so long as it does not make them poorer or put them and their families and friends at risk job wise? This view will, I think, account for many who voted to leave the EU thinking that they would even become better off as would the economy, the NHS (remember the bus!) and public services in general. Of course, all those alleged advantages have been found to be without foundation. Has this group changed their mind?

If you are a well off Brexiteer you may well be in the first group, able and willing to weather the storm. If you have a little put by then maybe you are in the second group. If you are struggling or have no savings then you are likely to be in the last group. Yes I know these are generalisations but you get my drift.

And yes I accept that there will be a very small minority who voted Remain who may well now want to vote to Leave

I’ve come to these conclusions based on listening to what people who voted to leave the EU have said and its why I think we need a Peoples Vote. Too many folk are saying that what’s on offer is nothing like what was promised and they are as a consequence changing their position. Those wanting a hard line Brexit of any kind will seemingly accept any deal no matter what it consists of.

Are our MP’s listening? Many of them seem to be hidden behind their Brexit sofa not willing to express a view or indeed fearing to express a view. Both Tory and Labour MP’s will want to keep quiet because deselection will face them if they step out of line with their leadership.

The next few days will be telling because if those who were promoting Brexit had told the truth in the last referendum the reality is that there would not have been a majority to leave the EU.

When does protest become unacceptable abuse?

Reuters has the article on its website see link below:-

uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-abuse/facing-chants-of-nazi-and-scum-mps-ask-police-to-act-over-brexit-abuse-idUKKCN1P2187

That Anna Soubry is called a fascist is bizarre especially as those who so label her are often of the far right themselves. I’m no Conservative but you have to respect Anna for standing up to the ridiculous people who are presently running the UK; I admire her as I do the small number of Labour MP’s who are speaking out against their similarly ridiculous party leadership.

Should the Met Police intervene when MP’s and others are being unreasonably abused?

Well, firstly the Met will be considering its own reputation before doing the decent/right thing. Secondly, the taunters will probably want to be arrested so they can claim that their freedom of speech is being infringed/stopped. Thirdly, freedom of speech is vital in our admittedly crumbling democracy where lies are traded as everyday facts these days.

As a Liberal, my stance is that I will defend anyone whose rights are being infringed

Do I want to shout abuse at Brexiters, yes I do! Will I do it? Well, I try to choose my words carefully on this blog and face to face I generally do not engage with Brexiteers because you can’t have logical arguments with folk who base their views on prejudices whilst also ignoring facts.

Abuse is often a difficult thing to define though. I’ll give you an example – I was once called a useless bucket of tripe in my time as leader of Sefton Council. I thought it was the funniest thing I had heard in years yet many others around me were horrified by it and the context it was used. So is calling Anna Soubry a Nazi legitimate protest or abuse? Well, I guess the reason for those saying it will be associated with trying to gain media attention and they succeeded in that. Anna seemed to laugh it off though as it was clearly a ridiculous thing to say.

The Police will have to act though if the behaviour of protestors is felt to be abusive and threatening by those on the receiving end of it but having seen a senior Met officer being interviewed today you can tell how they would rather just be referees not using yellow cards never mind red ones.

Tough calls and extreme Brexiters will defend their own come what may I guess. The balance will tip when the seemingly ‘acceptable’ behaviour attracts the absolute nutters who will go too far. Freedom of expression and protest comes with it responsibilities……………..

Interesting that Remain protesters behave reasonably…..

May and Corbyn in a similar Brexit pickle

The recent bizarre twists and turns of UK politics, as far as the two largest parties are concerned, seem to have brought us to a situation where on the biggest issue of a generation (Brexit) each party leadership is at odds with its own members and supporters.

Firstly Reuters reports on a poll of Tory Party members who, by a significant majority, oppose Teresa May’s Brexit Deal:-

uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-conservatives/most-of-mays-conservative-party-members-oppose-her-brexit-deal-survey-idUKKCN1OY004

Secondly, Political Betting shows that by another significant margin Jeremy Corbyn is well out of step with his members and supporters:-

www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/01/02/new-polling-finds-just-28-of-ge2017-lab-voters-support-the-partys-stance-on-brexit/

Both leaderships plough on regardless hoping and praying that the loyalty of their members and supporters will pull them through. Both, of course, have their core vote which will back the party no matter what it stands for; such is party political tribalism. Labour also has the advantage, which The Tories don’t, of the cultish supporters of Corbyn who will back and defend him whatever. The Tories are far more ruthless and will stab their leader in the back without a care when they have outlived their usefulness.

So what’s going to give? The Tory leadership is now openly blackmailing Tory MP’s to support May’s Brexit Deal (which many of them hate with a passion) or face a no deal Brexit which they will carry the can for. Corbyn, on the other hand, can try to sit tight and hope that he can help push a Brexit deal through whilst blaming the Tories for it being a bad deal. Trouble is by a big margin his MP’s are Remainers, but Corbyn has them over the barrel of deselection if they defy him as many Labour constituency parties are in the hands of his Momentum entryists. That’s why of course we are seeing the vast majority of social democrat Labour MP’s keeping their heads down.

Where’s smart money being placed on the outcome? One plausible scenario looks like this – May’s deal will get through after a big fight and much manoeuvring of the deckchairs on HMS UK Titanic, possibly by enough Labour MP’s abstaining for it to scrape through. Jobs will be lost, investment in the UK will fall, the NHS will struggle to gain the desperately needed investment and the Tories will win the next election. We will be on our way to being a tax haven with very poor (yes even worse than today) public services and the manipulative rich and powerful will have won the day.

Of course, another scenario ends up with a Peoples Vote and we put a stop to all this isolationist nonsense which has gripped the UK for the past few years. We could even put the racists back in their box and return to being a caring country that is welcome across the world rather than being seen as a laughing stock.

Take your pick but I know where I want things to end up:-

Brexit – If you voted for these things to happen, Why?

I think we’ve all got to the stage now, whichever way we voted in that fateful referendum, that the £350M to be invested in the NHS (per week) was a big fat lie and of course there were other porkies too. But ignoring those lies and even putting to one side the alleged ‘project fear’ issues it has to be said that some Brexiteers really do want Brexit at any cost to their community, country, livelihoods etc.

I find it hard to believe that 52% of those who chose to vote for Brexit really wanted things to turn out as Andrew Rawnsley outlines below in his Guardian article. But maybe they did? have a read, especially if you voted ‘Leave’ and consider what you voted for as to what you thought you were voting for:-

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/23/bluff-blackmail-brinkwomanship-why-a-no-deal-brexit-is-still-on-the-cards?CMP=share_btn_link

But if you are still unconvinced that voting ‘Leave’ was a big mistake, how about this article too:-

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/23/pharmaceutical-firms-preparing-no-deal-brexit-ordered-to-sign-ndas

Still happy to ‘Leave’? Well, you may be but I’d be highly surprised if you could get 52% of those who would go out and vote in a 2nd referendum to stand with you!

With thanks to Bob Robinson and Roy Connell for the leads to this posting

Bandwidth and Brexit – A guest posting from Bob Robinson

Do you remember when bandwidth was a problem? A time when you wanted to do things on your computer but were unable to do so. It struck me that Brexit has crowded out all other sensible conversation for ages. Stuff that should be done has not been done – where are the Transport for the North Plans for both the new Road and Railway?

Where is the new housing that we need? Where are the essential reforms for social care?

When facing an existential crisis, even one of your own making, smart managers recognise that delegation is a key coping strategy. Bureaucracy tends to centralise more easily than devolve but often it is the front line customer-facing staff who know more about the organisation’s issues in terms of both breadth and depth.

So why is this government so opposed to meaningful devolution to local government and regional bodies. Why are they talking about respecting democracy whilst not taking steps to reinforce local democracies? This “fingers in their ears – singing blah blah blah” paradigm has got to be challenged. We need a General Election at which this issue is front and centre.

Brexit is a busted flush poll reveals but Corbyn still backs it against the poor

The Guardian has the article on its website – see link below:-

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/20/polls-stay-eu-yougov-brexit-peoples-vote?CMP=share_btn_link

The headline from the Peter Kellner article makes a powerful case – ‘The polls are clear: support for staying in the EU has rocketed’

With thanks to Bob Robinson for the lead to this posting

Stop Press – Corbyn re-rails Brexit with defiant message to pursue it at all costs seemingly –

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/21/jeremy-corbyn-labour-policy-leaving-eu?CMP=share_btn_tw

Thanks Jez but at least we know where we stand with you – lob losses, an even more underfunded NHS, collapsing economy and the poor being made poorer all so you can have your socialist revolution. Is there anything the Labour leadership will not sacrifice on the altar of socialism?