Brexit – May V Corbyn – It’s actually not a party political matter

The British media see things in a rather black and white way and often things can be like that. However, in politics especially at the moment, things are actually many shades of grey. Just look at this article from the BBC website about how many Conservative Brexit factions there are:-

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46386172

And of course, Labour is also split. Their leadership is Brexit leaning it’s just that they want a different deal to the one that May has negotiated. Corbyn, of course, has always been anti-EU. However, lots of Labour MP’s are pro-EU and anti-Brexit although with many Labour constituency party organisations being dominated by Momentum those MP’s hardly ever speak out for fear of being deselected for opposing Jeremy’s view.

So a May V Corbyn debate is actually pointless as fundamentally they both want the same thing i.e. to leave the EU except that Corbyn says he can negotiate a different deal to the one May has come up with.

One leading commentator said this of the proposed debate, which sums up the situation perfectly:-

Mike Galsworthy – ‘As far as I’m concerned… A May-Corbyn debate on Brexit is going to be like watching two flat-earthers arguing over who can explain gravity better’

My point is this, any sensible debate should actually be between May and a representative of the cross-party People’s Vote Campaign. Personally, I’m not bothered who that representative should be but here are a few suggestions – Sarah Wollaston MP, Vince Cable MP, Alastair Campbell, Caroline Lucas MP. I think I would probably plump for Campbell.

Surely no one wants a no deal scenario other than complete Brexit nutters so the real choice in the ridiculous situation the UK now finds itself is between May’s deal and Remain.

However, there could be a point in having Corbyn in the TV debate too so that he has an opportunity to explain how different his deal with the EU would look and how he would achieve it. We get it that Corbyn and the Labour leadership feel they can negotiate a different, even a better deal, than May has done but where will the differences be? We need to see Labour’s Brexit Deal detail or indeed have Corbyn exposed for not having a real alternative at all.

That May’s deal is rubbish seems to be a given across Brexteers and Remainers so staying in the EU is the only really sensible alternative to it unless Corbyn can clearly show why and how his Brexit deal would be better than staying in the EU. If Corbyn can show his Brexit would be better for jobs, the economy, the NHS etc. than staying in the EU then his next step would have to be to get Article 50 extended whilst he wins a General Election and then delivers his deal. A tough ask indeed because he would also have to show why the EU would back his alternative.

With thanks to Roy Connell for thew lead to this posting.

Outside of the Labour Leadership there are MP’s with sense on Brexit

Labour MP for Wigan, Lisa Nandy, makes a case for rethinking the Brexit mess in which our Conservative Government and indeed the Leadership of her own Labour Party finds itself – see the link to the Guardian website below:-

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/29/theresa-may-extend-article-50-no-deal-brexit?CMP=share_btn_link

I think we have always known that the majority of Labour MP’s are not mad Brexiteers but their voices have been hard to hear as they fear losing their seats if they stand up against Jeremy Corbyn’s Brexit enabling policy stance. But here we have a Labour MP who has broken cover and is saying some things that many progressives in UK politics believe to be the case. She’s too guarded in what she says and sadly fails to make a case for a Peoples Vote but these small steps are significant if they are repeated in many other Labour held constituencies where the incumbent MP is still hidden behind the Brexit sofa.

I wonder what consequences she will suffer for trying to be brave?

With thanks to Bob for the lead to this posting

Brexit has always been about the Tory Party’s splits

Brexit has always been about the Tory Party trying to grapple with its opposing factions and the referendum was called to help heal Tory splits. But of course, it has widened those splits whilst bizarrely dragging in some Labour folk who should know a lot better than to have joined in.

It really is time for Labour to come off the fence and be very clear that they will fight Brexit in all its forms. It’s no use Labour leaders calling for a Brexit on their terms as it will be just as bad as the Tory Brexit. Only staying in the EU will protect jobs, the NHS and our economy – it’s not rocket science Jeremy.

That Corbynism thing – An American perspective

I’ve been trying to get a better understanding of Jeremy Corbyn and his followers who idolise him so much. By chance my good friend Bob sent me this link to an article about him and wider UK/USA political matters. It comes from an American perspective and its a very long read indeed, but it is one of the best insights into what Corbynism is all about that I have come across:-

nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/08/andrew-sullivan-on-jeremy-corbyn-face-of-the-new-new-left.html

Yes I know, if you have read it by now, some of the points are a little odd from a UK perspective. A Radical, for example, in British political terms is a socially progressive Liberal – Corbyn is no Radical but of course the word is used in American terms.

In turn I asked Bob and another deep political thinker, my daughter Jen, what they thought of the points made. This is what they said:-

Bob‘this [is an] excellent essay on Jeremy Corbyn and the influences that shape his views. The Tories appear to think in the same way although from a right wing perspective. It is both interesting and disturbing that terms such as “entryism” now are being used about both of the major parties in this country.’

and

‘I had not read such a coherent analysis of Corbyn’s strengths and weaknesses before. The danger is not so much that we become a polarised country but that we become bi-polarised – in the hands of parties that appeal to populist sentiment by detaching themselves from economic realism.’

Jen

‘I do not understand people who find Corbyn charismatic, sincere or meek.

The parallels between him and Trump are interesting, they do both seem to be the product of populist politics that values slogans over substance and seems not to care who their chosen saviour allies himself (because it’s always HIMself) with, no matter how misogynistic/racist/homophobic they turn out to be.

Corbyn is exactly the kind of man to start invoking the idea that all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing and yet when those who identify themselves as his tribe hurl misogynistic and racist abuse that is exactly what he does.

But seriously what the hell is it with the British public suddenly deciding they want to run by characters from a knock-off PG Wodehouse novel?!

“When he isn’t politicking, he gardens on the British equivalent of a Victory Garden. He loves animals, particularly pigs. He has a passion for cricket, the football club Arsenal, and railways (he refuses to drive a car for environmental reasons). He also has an obsession with manhole covers and takes photos of them across the country.”

Between him and Rees-Mogg we’ll be living in the bloody 1920s never mind the 1970s! I love Wodehouse, but let’s be honest his is a world of white men, class divides, and women being viewed as distant figures of lust or terror that can never be understood. Not a world I really wish to inhabit.’

From my own perspective I get why Corbyn’s social policies are so popular even though they may well be economically unworkable particularly with the Labour Leadership also bizarrely backing a Brexit that can only make the poor poorer. The money that they would struggle to find for their huge spending plans in good times will certainly not be there in the bad times that Brexit is bringing to our table. So big social spending whilst backing Brexit simply does not add up and it never will.

The point I really see though is that Jeremy is a 1970’s-type left wing politician and like some socialists that I have known (many of whom I would consider my friends) through my many years working in the trade union movement he seems to live almost to re-fight the battles of the political past. Thatcher and Thatcherism is the usual go to for socialists who spend more time looking back than forward. It’s not that those times were insignificant, they were indeed very significant but harking back to those dark days does not really help solve the political challenges of today. To put it simply Jeremy seems to me to think that if everything that was done under Thatcher, Major, Blair and Brown was undone then all will be well. Indeed, he may even want to undo things Harold Wilson did too! But I think you get my drift here; re-fighting the battles of past will not cure our troubles of the present.

And yet despite all these issues there are many who would walk over hot coals for Corbyn.

Jeremy what would you do with him?

When Jeremy Corbyn got himself elected as Labour Leader my first thought was, at last Labour will become the socialist party that it should always have been. I also felt a little sorry for him as the right wing press and the right wing of his own party tried to undermine his leadership. Of course I’m no socialist and no supporter of the Labour Party but Labour moving to the left is where they belong to my mind.

Now don’t get me wrong Jez is a second division politician who got himself elected almost by default but he clearly has what one could call a cult-type following, which I have blogged about previously. That he is a second division politician has been born out though by his approach to the two big issues of our time.

Firstly, no leader of a progressive party could in any way back the right wing policy that is Brexit, yet he has done so whilst seemingly believing that there will be no job losses due to it! A detachment from realty is obvious as Brexit will lead to job losses and the poor will be made poorer. What kind of socialist or progressive stance is that?

Secondly, he’s got Labour up to it neck in antisemitism! How on earth has he managed to engineer a situation where such allegations can be made and why has he failed to address those most serious allegations of racism that are now being aimed at Labour, often from its own members. His cult devotees say it’s all a right wing conspiracy against Jez but really, saying that may comfort them but they must know it is a hole of the Labour leadership’s own digging.

Someone needs to take the shovel off Jez or he’ll soon dig another hole for Labour to fall into whilst the Tories continue to bumble on towards a most appalling Brexit for us all because they benefit from having no serious Official Opposition.

Labour – Does anyone understand their muddled headed Brexit policy approach

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43710728

The BBC has the story on its web site – see link above

The sad fact is that the Tories/DUP/UKIP have been given what is little less than a free pass by our Official Opposition over Brexit. As a progressive I’m ashamed to see a supposedly progressive party like Labour adopting almost childlike polity stances towards the biggest issue of our times.

Brexit will make is all poorer so the poor will suffer the most – what self respecting progressive party could possibly support such a process?